Thanks for your response. November 11, 2018 What Is The Purpose Of The Mantra During Meditation? Check out the work of David Rohl. The docu-series brings the biblical sources, but it should be interesting for non-religious viewers, Landa said. I appreciate it! and 2 Sam. 11:22). Seems pretty clear to me because they said they were like grasshoppers to themselves AND to the ones they saw. I am surprised by some of the comments on this post which leads me to believe that we have a poor understanding of literary devices, grasshoppers being one of them. Also, I dont read anywhere in the Bible where king Saul (6+ feet tall) was referred to as a giant so I dont see why the Israelites would call Goliath a giant if he was only 6 in a half feet tall or thereabouts. Yes, that may be true Peter. I dont have an answer to your question (its a good one!) It is also amazing to me that the basic reading at any level of understanding leads us to Gods central message to His people, difficult differences in culture notwithstanding. However, this sounds more like some of the conspiracy theories you read on the web. Thanks again for writing. I can see that being a temptation to Lahmis parents. Why do I bring this up? So, Goliath was a giant. 4. 21 refers to Goliath as the rapha which is sometimes translated as giant in English translations. Perhaps Fields Of The Nephilims best-known song thanks to it reaching no.28 in the official UK single charts after its release in the summer of 1988. Again, Im not sure how he defends that. Goliath my not have been 30 ft tall but he was definitely the normal size of a man. Either way, these creatures are becoming more and more popular in todays culture. 21:19 has suffered in transmission. That doesnt mean the solution reached in this paper is the correct solution for every apparent contradiction. Nephilim, the original giants that could reach the size or almost the size of skyscrapers (which isnt unbelievable when you look at how high planes can go before air becomes a bother). We have to add the word roughly because, quite obviously, the length from one persons elbow to the tip of their middle finger may be shorter or longer than that of someone else. Maybe the later manuscripts had to update a change in cubit length? 3:1-11). This was interesting and I agree with Hays to a point on this. We arent dogmatic and dont hide anything. How does this theory answer OG of Bashan and his 9 cubit x 4 cubit beadstead? For example, the royal cubit in Egypt was 20.65 inches, while in Babylonia it was 19.8 inches (Clyde E. Billington, GOLIATH AND THE EXODUS GIANTS: HOW TALL WERE THEY?, JETS, 50/3, 2007, pp. In the original piece of folklore Goliath only needed to be 69. Hi David, To give you some comparison the Great Pyramids of Egypt are approximately 449.5 feet tall. Moonchild But alas, this writing only includes and refers to a certain location and peoples, not USA or Hawaiian Islands, H. I. Other markings indicate star risings. Of course there are people who take the He was 10 feet tall, because thats what the Bible says people who cant comprehend biology. No, with the four categories of giant the Bible gives, Goliath was merely regarded as a giant, but not a true one. I will have more to say about this below. David trusted God not his personal strength or past record in person successes. His reasons are summarized below. Randy, I have found this article and comments to be very interesting! The first and most transparent explanation is that divine beings came to earth, assumed human flesh, cohabited with human women, and spawned unusual offspring known as Nephilim. We bring the sources and encourage the viewer to ask questions, to continue to study and do their own research.. I totally agree. Azazel, Azazyel, The other link in my post refers to an article by Clyde Billington. Sometimes the MT is the superior reading and sometimes the LXX is. The most important difference is their impressive height. . Look at guys like Shaq whos a little over 7. Regarding 1 Samuel 17, as a number of scholars have pointed out, Goliath is never called a giant in this text. Nephilim, in the Hebrew Bible (the Christian Old Testament ), a group of mysterious beings or people of unusually large size and strength who lived both before Thanks for your comments. I wish you the best. Therefore, it is not disingenuous to speak about people of the Ancient Near East and include Israel in that category. This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. I find this very interesting because the bible is dealing with truth and not politics. One Final Item to Note. Landa explained that Gilgal Refaim aligns with significant astronomical phenomena. The writers of the New Testament quoted from it frequently. The movie explores the theory that the center of the structure was used as an excarnation chamber where the body was allowed to decompose. Im always willing to post opposing views. No Randy, the Chroniclers text is a deliberate harmonization of the text to resolve the conflict. folklore comes from historical basis. (they can regenerate their nervous systems), we have gravity pulling us down everyday on land where we have to maneuver. That is not the purpose of this blog. Thank you, Randy. David was a boy when he killed goliath he was taller than the average israelite but was a boy between 12 and 14 (i am guessing). Problem solved, Goliath grows from 66 to approximately 99. Im glad you enjoyed the article Ben. While we cannot be positive that Goliath had this condition, it seems to indicate he stood out significantly from his peers and was such a terrifying sight that he far surpassed even those soldiers who were above average in height (bigger and taller) than their peers (i.e. How were the Egyptian Pyramid stones and other monolith stones moved? My problem with the baseline assessment is it is entirely based on the average height of a man from the ancient world being 55. The NIV uses the word Nephilim. Look, the human nervous system is only so long, organs are only so big. Though the Rephaim are never mentioned directly in the same breath as the Nephilim, they are directly connected to the Anakim, whom are connected with the Nephilim. Steve Quayle has conducted much research on the topic, and claims the two were cousins, or, shared some sort of blood relation. lol. If you have done any archaeological work yourself, or if you have some credible archaeological sources that refute this stat, I would certainly be interested in knowing about those sources. I would date the final form of Samuel to the exile. Rapha is the singular of Rephaim, who are a people that dwelt in Canaan and east of the Jordan long before Israel ever came into Canaan (e.g., Deut. Hi Andy, It is certainly possible that the size of his bed suggests he was of unusual height. They are believed to behave strangely, unnaturally and too controlled. I agree with what you said mark There seems to be something missing 1 Samual 9:2. We seek out actual proof, the traces and clues that are out there in the world, and not just the faith-based claims. How To Recognize A Nephilim? These are the heights we frequently hear referenced by pastors and teachers when commenting on 1 Samuel 17:4. Joshua 15:13 states Arba was the forefather of Anak.. Israelites, Edomites, Moabites, Ammonites, all shared a common ancestry, as the Bible makes clear. It should be pointed out, however, that this explanation is not necessarily an objective point of view whereas other explanations are based on preconceived ideas. It would be like 80 trees or more to feel like that. But I must admit that the other is, because Im used to the readings found in the MT (which admittedly is not a good reason). In fact, the last True giant is killed in Deuteronomy. The purpose of Gilgal Refaim is still a mystery and the focus of scholarly debate. A rough estimate of Ogs size can be made based on a reference to the size of his bed which is described as nine amot long and four amot wide. Especially if the people have a past history of being part of that bordering culture. The offspring of these unions were called Nephilim, a race of giants that lived on the earth. Thank you for writing. The Bible makes it crystal clear that Goliath is not a giant. Anytime there is a suggested reading that is different, I want to hang on to the reading of the MT. They often get confused by the world around them. I am also taking into consideration the average height of the time and the fact that no large skeletons have yet (and I emphasize yet) been uncovered through archaeology. The fact that 4QSam(a) is earlier than the MT and that it, and Chronicles, and the LXX, always agree with each other whenever there is a variant is compelling. Based on Genesis 14:13, which describes a fugitive (Palit) who told Abram about Lots capture, Jewish tradition teaches that Og was alive in the time of Noah but escaped the flood by clinging to the side of the Ark. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. This leads me to believe Goliath was in the 9 range. Unless some new manuscript discovery is found by the archaeologists spade, we will never be able to reconstruct what this text actually said. Since the Israelites didnt refer to their appx. First, as I know you are aware, there are as many explanations for these two passages as there are commentators and commentaries. Now, to really see something great go back into time and you will see and know the truth. Thats whats going to happen in the future when someone digs up former NBA players in 100 years! Thanks for your comments. First, we should not judge Goliaths height based on modern standards, but rather on ancient Near Eastern standards. Billington estimates that a person who is 5 feet tall would have a span of about 7 1/2 inches. Although many people think that the Nephilim were all killed by Archangel Gabriel, due to Gods command, there might be some left alive. What are the Nephilim in the Bible? In todays world we do have some really tall people, but I wouldnt consider ANY of them as giants. This seems highly plausible. The word for cubit in verse 4 and hundredin verse 7 look very similar in Hebrew. A final point I would make is that there are some scholars who believe that the text of 1 Chron. The Israelite Diet: What Did the Ancient Israelites Eat? Biblical Archaeology Review You mention that the word giant is not mentioned in 1 Samuel 17. When the Spirit-inspired writers of the Scriptures used hyperbole, they are emphasizing a point just as we do today. The Chronicles account only helps to clear up the confusion. People with Giantism average 8.5 feet tall or greater. Average height of Jewish men in David's time is said to be about 5 feet tall. On this particular passage, however, bible scholar, J. Daniel Hays argues in a very convincing way for the reading found in one of the Dead Sea Scrolls (4QSam[a]) and the Septuagint (LXX). The Dead Sea Scrolls of this passage along with the Septuagint version (which was used by the early church as their Scripture) both read 4 cubits. mydigitalseminary Your encouragement and comments are deeply appreciated. WebAsk everyone to send you their heights and compare them together on our crisp and clean chart! God bless! They were the heroes of old, men of renown. Leave a comment Some say Goliath stood at four cubits and a span which is about 7.80 feet (2.38 Some scholars believe that Goliath the Gittite (an inhabitant of Gath) belonged to a race of people known as the Nephilim ( Genesis 6:1-4 ). One common explanation of Genesis 6 is that the Nephilim are the descendants of the sons of God (fallen angels) and the daughters of men. Associates for Biblical Research. and references from exodus state that the Israelites were as grasshoppers in their sight. Then define ancient. These giants where between 10 and 140 feet tall as noted in Amos and in Deuteronomy. Im sorry but grasshoppers and 6 or even 9 doesnt compute even as an allegory or hyperboleGrasshoppers to Man and man to people that make Man feel like a grasshopper is a huge ratio. Keeping in mind we do not know which cubit was being used, it seems to me that the evidence favors 4 cubits. Some argue against the 4 cubits and a span reading by saying if Saul was head and shoulders taller than anyone else in Israel, and the average Israelite was 5 feet. Hi Morris, Before continuing, when seeking the truth about Goliaths height, we should caution ourselves concerning our own prejudices. David was not looking at the height of Goliath, he was looking at the size of his God. Let me begin by saying that I have not personally dug up any people from ancient Israel or anywhere else in the Middle East. Therefore, there is a high chance that youve already met a nephilim in person. There was clearly a very intelligent design behind the site, Landa noted. Sorry for bad spelling. Also they are hard to be understood, because their body language is different from ours. Which span of years were our bones from to compare? We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. These pictures of so-called Nephilim are dubious (see photo above on left). Also, although you might not be intimidated by someone 69 is not the point. and yes it is biblically based. And why 5 smooth stones and not 4 if Goliath has 3 other brothers and not 4? The Nazka (sp?) God bless! nef'-i-lim (nephilim): This word, translated "giants" in the King James Version, but retained in the Revised Version (British and American), is found in two passages of When asked if they knew anything about vanishing national archives the most frequent response was, Mari-whatta?. The public should be outraged, but So that is a tall guy. Lets start with Genesis 6:4 in one of the Modern versions, the NIV: Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those daysand also afterwardwhen the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. These various measurements of the cubit are only the beginning of the uncertainty regarding Goliaths height, because we also must consider how long a span is. 1Sam. Numbers 13:33. They are Giants! The bigger a person becomes, the harder it is on their organs. Actually, if you look at Goliath and the Philistine background, they are not descendants of the Nephilim. Thanks for writing. Moshe Garsiel in his recent commentary on 1&2 Samuel presents an interesting argument that Elhanan is another name for David. Thanks so much for your comments. Bible, Archaeology, Travel with Luke Chandler Thank you again. Biblical characters did often have more than one name as do monarchs. A soon-to-be-released docu-series will present a rare and researched look at one of the most perplexing Biblical topics: Nephilim (giants). A fascinating read. My point in this article is not to come up with the most logical explanation in the sense that I doubt what the Bible teaches. And even then, not every nation that came from Ham were giants. Thank you for your kind words of encouragement. When there is a discrepancy such as this, this is what people who love the Scripture should do. Thus the Rapha are a semitic people and it would not be unusual for some to use Semitic names even though living among the Philistines. Nor where there any True giants after Deuteronomy. we dont have to rationalize the term to fit our sensibilities. Maybe the four cubits could be the measurements taken from Goliaths dead body. Mostly through Patterns of Evidence and a YouTube video I saw when he talked about the need to revise Egyptian chronology. and assumed it was correct. The explanation you offer also comes with an agenda and that agenda is clearly seen in your sarcasm toward the biblical accounts. Similarly, Gob is most likely a scribal error for Gath because Gath was Goliaths hometown, and if the text is speaking of Goliaths brother, he would presumably be from Gath also. In Hawaii Smithsonian collaborated with the Bishop Museum on our Hawaiian Islands relics and artifactswe ARE outraged still that our ancestors are NOT at rest stored in a wooden box in a foreign country or on display. Hey, I learned! This second figure seems impossibly low for a giant like Goliath and we might be tempted to automatically throw it out as a possibility. You raise some good questions. We'll assume you're ok with this, but you can opt-out if you wish. If we had time travel, somebody could go back in time and say excuse me Goliath I just want to take your measurements for future biblical prints so all will know the truth! If Goliath was but 4 cubit that would mean david didnt slay the tallest man in the world. We present the evidence and we invite people to research to reach their own conclusions, Landa said. there is no reason why he would have feared him. This passage states that the Anakim only remained in Gaza, Gath, and Ashdod (all Philistine cities!). Its more likely David would have been around 5 foot or so (very realistic for the period), and Goliath around 7-ish (another realistic amount for the period). Each one is said to be related to the giant (the word is rapha which is the singular of Rephaim). So, my point: Using 25 inches as the baseand calculating 4 cubits and a span, we have around 109 inches (just around 9 feet). So.. Second, it is important to examine the textual evidence for each reading. Look at Robert Wadlow (the one mentioned who was 8 feet, 11.1 inches tall at last measurement). Where Will the Battle of Armageddon Be Fought? and they can be found all over the world. However, that is not the only explanation. Lets throw that question out to other readers and see if anyone has some concrete information one way or the other. Thats why I provided the links. But opting out of some of these cookies may have an effect on your browsing experience. I research in my field of study but not in my religion. about whether cubit sizes changed over the centuries. However, two considerations should be borne in mind. This is just mine. My figures are based upon what other scholars have said. Among these are the belief that the biblical writers did not intentionally distort their history. By the time David was born, there were no more giants, descendants of giants who were less than 10 feet tall, as well as tall men were around however. Im glad you found the article and comments informative. The point is, however, that here is a scholar who is convinced by text form that the Chronicles reading is legit. Physically, they were not different than us. Here, this is the best list I could find: 1. Im not accusing anyone of anything here and I dont begrudge you a differing opinion. If you follow the story of Saul in 1 Samuel, it emphasizes his fear and lack of faith. Also, nowhere does it state in 2 Samuel that the person they are talking about is Goliath. As for the Nephilim and their descendants, I am in agreement that they are the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men as recorded in Gen. 6:1-4. If we all see its Goliath was bigger than a re guar men in that time and even bigger than Saul otherwise it would not emphasize his height, but the whole point is that the spirit of GOD was with David, so the stone was purposely driven by GOD not the man David. God bless! Thanks! Shortly thereafter she became pregnant with a child and named him Lahmi., Funny stuff Greg. Billington notes that an 18 inch cubit would mean the person was about 5 feet 8 inches (taller than most Israelites of this period). Thanks Randy, always a delight to read your well reasoned articlesLove ya mate You find out in Chapter 14 of Numbers as well as Chapter 13 of Numbers that the report given was a bad/evil report. Did you ever meet a Nephilim? Thank you Mark. To give an example of what Im talking about, the question of whether Absalom had sons or not is often viewed as a contradiction by those who have a low opinion of the biblical text. WebNEPHILIM. God bless, WebThe Nephilim in Hebrew is translated to fall and is interpreted by many as the Fallen Angels due to mentions in ancient texts. If he was taller than Wadlow, then he too would have also outgrew his nervous system just as Wadlow did, meaning like Wadlow he wouldnt have been able to walk without a cane. This is yet another example of a Canaanite people (of large size) living in Philistine cities. For example, as Im sure youre aware, a potsherd has been discovered in Gath with letters that resemble the name Goliath (also noted in an article on this blog about Philistine cities). He couldnt hardly walk, because he outgrew his nervous system, needing a cane to walk- tragically thats what killed him, because he needed braces for his legs, which ultimately cut him, since he couldnt feel it, didnt know, and the infection led to his death. Four Theories - Christianity.com Most people cruise right over that passage. Hi Randy However, I still believe the external evidence that Hays produces argues for the 4 cubits and a span reading. its really nice to read articles written by a true follower of Jesus. 28-33) stated by unfaithful, disloyal, contradictory, embellishing spies who also contradict Moses, Caleb, Joshua, God, and the entire rest of the Bible, who make five assertions about which the rest of the Bible knows nothing, and whom God rebukes. Regarding whether the name Lahmi (clearly a semitic name) could be used by someone from the city of Gath (see below why I dont say Gob as the MT of 2 Sam. Ask yourself, is it possible that Goliaths parents, being good Philistines and giving Goliath a Philistine name, would give his brother the name Lahmi? You obviously think otherwise, but the grasshopper comment is indeed ancient hyperbole. What say you Randy about a Philistine giant with a Hebrew name that means my bread? And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those You have been a gentleman with your responses and it is clear you have an unbiased view which is great! Depending on the size of an individual, the common cubit would be even less than the royal cubit. Hi Marla, Joshua 11:22 speaks about the conquest of the land, especially focusing on the Anakim (descendants of the Nephilim, see my other related posts here and here). Humans are NOT like whales who live in the ocean In the pre-diluvian sixth chapter of Genesis, the Bible says that the Sons of Elohim cohabited with the daughters of men. Even in the 1800s care was taken, although it was not as admittedly sophisticated as it is today. (Genesis 6:14) More often than not its just easier to shrug our shoulders and move on to the story of Noah and his family. Hes big on both fronts, and more likely the way Goliath was. 21:19Open in Logos Bible Software (if available) has suffered in transmission. Its also important that what we may consider a giant and what an ancient person may have considered a giant could be different. I'd kinda like to see something akin to "cattle shows" where the most well bred wild nephilim win, maybe according to some hidden judging system where different judges (which change for each show) like certain traits and body types more, and the player has a few days ahead of time to know who the judges will be. Its a fascinating study and one that nicely demonstrates how the bible has been changed over time. Other passages do seem to support that the Nephilim (and those related to them) were extra large size. NIV. Check out LA Marzuli and youll see 61-9 is not Goliaths height. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9_the_Giant, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Khali, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wadlow, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rogan. I guess thats why David killed him so easily, he fell over without his cane! WebMales averaged about 1m 75 cm; females 1m 60 cm, Neanderthals were considerably stronger and tougher. This could mean he was extremely tall but there is also another explanation for it which I have mentioned already in the comment section here. How do you expect a guy who cant hardly walk to be a soldier? 21:19. No reason to question the inerrancy of the scriptures here? Angels The region, known as the Bashan, is where Og the king came out against the Israelites at the time of their entrance into the Promised Land. Ive not really studied Chronicles much but my understanding is that it reflects a date in the 400s B.C. Clyde E. Billington, GOLIATH AND THE EXODUS GIANTS: HOW TALL WERE THEY?,, Descendants of the Nephilim in Genesis 14, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9_the_Giant, https://www.biblestudywithrandy.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/10-The-Savior_The-Lord-Almighty-Reigns.m4a. The entranceway to the center looks out on the sunrise on the summer solstice. They were principalities in the heavenly realm.. If someone was say 4 feet taller? Yes, I agree that people in Scripture have more than one name. Best wishes and God bless. The Inspiration Networks are considering the distribution channel for the film and expect to release Angels & Giants: The Watchers & Nephilim this fall. Thanks for the encouragement! The point of this article is to discuss one small (pun intended) point of the story. Until they encounter a trigger that brings clearance. In their insatiable hunger, the monstrous Nephilim eat all of mankind's food, and when the food runs out, Which is interesting because its the length of the Ark. Im seeking which may be the original reading. I appreciate his work. Hi Ajam, Some unsurmountable hurdles in the way of Goliath being a descendant of Nephilim are: Randy, Well as he was a descendant of a Giant race of people surely 6 foot 9 inches would make him a midget ? Not by rolling on treesCarried by huge men. I assure you this is not an attempt to do away with what the Bible says. I am a believer and see the Bible as Gods inspired Word. They have some physical differences, but those are not that easy to spot. But the nephilim from The Bible should not be alive today, because they were all killed by Archangel Gabriel before the flood. People who where very tall, but not true giants. As a result, I find myself partial to the MT. 9+ feet would indeed be a giant. It makes more sense if they updated and not changed the cubits. I was content to leave you with the final word, but since you insist I will share some further thoughts. The verse from Numbers 13 mentioning giants, or in Hebrew the Nephilim were nothing more than a lie. Thanks for your comment and question. At 6 feet, 8 inches (202 centimeters) tall, the man would have been a giant in third-century A.D. Rome, where men averaged about 5 and a half feet (167 centimeters) tall. Greetings, brother! Some argue that the weight of Goliaths weaponry and armor better fits someone who. Youre welcome Rick. It was a false report to get the Israelites to turn against Moses. It is an evergreen conifer that can reach 40 m (130 ft) in height. Wiki. Given that the common height of an ancient Israelite was somewhere between 5 feet and 5 feet 3 inches, this could make the common cubit somewhere between 16-17 inches. If you are not sure, these few characteristics might convince you if that person was, in fact, a Nephilim or an offspring. Thank you for your kind words Dr. Marcus. My understanding of what hes saying is that even though the Lahmi brother of Goliath occurs in the Chroniclers account (which was obviously compiled later), this particular passage reflects an earlier form of the text. In your opinion, how many years past between the final form of the book of Samuel and the Chroniclers account of the story?

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